Hi everyone,
Today Ms. Finn asked us whether or not she should put up a poster for Veteran's Day that depicted a flag waving among clouds witht he sun shining through it, and had the words "Veterans Day" on it. Given the current war, we debated whether or not puttin gup the poster would show support for the war, support for the troops, support for the country, or just support for all American soldiers who have fought in battle. Would not putting it up after having gotten it in the mail automatically show a lack of support? Since the decision was based on a genocide class majority rule vote and people might have had some lingering questions/comments, maybe we could bring them here. What do you think should have been done about the poster and why?
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9 comments:
I guess I will respond to this whole poster conundrum with my own personal opinion...
My problem with the poster is that I am accustomed to rejecting the idea of patriotism in its entirety. The American flag is the "poster image" (no pun intended) for American patriotism, and due to where I come from (San Francisco culture, a left-leaning background, my own developed values/opinions), I have trouble getting past such a loaded image. Patriotism, for me, has always been synonymous with values, decisions, positions with which I don't agree, namely the decision to go to war in Iraq. I find it most challenging to see this poster anything aside from governmental propaganda, because the government is infamous for playing in to an individual's pride in or affinity to the USA to support their own agenda.
This having been said, I can also see the value in taking Veteran's Day for what it is, which is a reminder of the people who, perhaps involuntarily, risked their lives in the name of certain freedoms or privileges I have today.
Still hard for me to say whether or not I think the poster should be hung...
I personally feel that the photo should be hung. It is to commemorate the soldiers who fought in the war... not the war itself and I believe that is important.
I also think it is important as a reminder of why we have the day off. Many holidays in America are just viewed as a day off or a reason for sales. Memorial day for example is ideally supposed to commemorate those who have passed away but instead many people spend the day taking advantage of the many sales. I think it is important to go back to the fundamental reason we have a vacation and a poster is a good reminder.
to me, this poster is personal. my grandfather is a veteran of the navy, and on veterans day, my family goes out to dinner to celebrate him. i guess to me, it's natural to want to honor the troops, whether or not you agree with the war they fought in.
also, last year during jellis block, the assignment was to make a movie about a group of people in the bay area that is "invisible." i thought veterans were rather invisible, since no one regularly thinks about soldiers who've returned from war. sadly enough, some were even treated with disrespect because they'd fought. when i interviewed them, i learned their amazing stories. even though we may not agree with the war they fought in, i still think that they deserve our respect, considering they put their lives on the line for our country.
responding to patriotism...
i think it's unfortunate that people sometimes think that the flag holds negative connotations... i don't see it as supporting the war, but rather showing support for the country we live in. i think that it is important to appreciate america - to me, it definitely is one of the greatest (if not THE greatest) countries in the world.
which brings up something i wanted to ask in class...
do you think that, because we live in america, we are spoiled? i mean, we are so accustomed to these basic rights - freedom of speech, religion, press, etc. that we don't really know life without them. how can we say that we wouldn't put our lives in danger to fight for these rights? do you think you would?
-coe
I personally thought that the poster should be hung because similar to Tal and like I said in class, as stressed-out students, we see days off as time to relax, and rarely as a days to commemerate someone or something. Whenever we have a weekday off I know I go "yes! only a 4 day week!" I seldom take a step back to look at why I'm not in school.
To answer Coe's question, I think that yes, we do take the rights guaranteed in the Constitution for granted. A lot of us don't realize what limited speech many people have in other countries. Dispite this, I think that our system of democracy does not include all that is guaranteed. I think to say that everyone has free speech and free press all the time is an overstatement. One can say that "all men are created equal" and that we all have complete freedom, but there is no way that this is true. We face many issues everday, including racism and poverty.
I think the poster should be hung because I believe it asks for the honoring of veterans who were willing or forced to put their lives out on the line for us and for America. I do not, by any means, think war should be glorified. However, I think the poster has no intention of glorifying war. It simply calls for respect to be paid to veterans which I personally find very important and necessary.
I realize that some people may find negative connotations in the flag and may find the poster offensive, but just because something can be found offensive, it does not mean it should not be put up. In addition, it may very well be offensive to some if the poster is NOT put up. This of course leads to some questions that we were in the direction of discussing last class.
Do you think we have become too sensitive and worried about offending others? Do you think that sometimes we read into things to find offense? What are the pros and cons of trying to be politically correct?
I think the poster should be hung because how veterans are treated when they return from war is a very real issue. A couple stories include the problems at Walter Reed Medical Center in the Washington DC area, where veterans from the recent Iraq war were kept in horrible conditions, or how many homeless have signs that say they were Vietnam veterans. I think keeping veterans visible is a worthy cause.
Granted, as someone from our class pointed out, (I can't remember who) the thought process of most students seeing the Veterans day sign will be more along the lines of "Veterans day long weekend yay" and the social issue of veterans will not be anywhere near their mind, so I'm not sure myself if anyone will protest putting the poster up.
A question that popped into my mind upon reading the word Constitution in Aileen's post: On Constitution day, flag imagery was a large part of the celebration. I personally didn't hear anyone take issue with it. Did you or anyone you know dislike the use of patriotic imagery during Constitution day? Is it "ok" to use the flag to celebrate the Constitution but not ok to use it when it's related to war?
I think Diego makes a valid point, why is it that some may have a problem with our Nation's flag when it is raised to support veterans as opposed to constitution day?
I don't think of myself as a particularly patriotic person, especially with the current political situations, however I do believe the flag should be hung for veterans above anything or anyone else. No matter one's stance on a war, soldiers aren't fighting for an administration, they are fighting and risking their lives for their country, whether voluntary or not, and flying the flag for them is a sign of respect and not necessarily a political statement or support of a war.
I personally didn't think the poster should be hung, although I'm glad we had the vote in class. While simply throwing it out wouldn't quite be anti-veterans, it is important to get opinions on issues, and at least give the poster and the day some value in class. I disagreed with the decision to put it up because I personally am against war and all forms of it. I know that people say it's for the troops, not the war, but the thing is, the troops make the war. Without them, there wouldn't be war, which is my ideal society. I think that the poster glorifies war and is propaganda that I would rather not see at my school.
Going back a few posts to what Danielle said about patriotism, I agree Americana tends to be representative of a more right-wing view, which is a shame. Liberals can be proud to be part of a free democracy as well, and the sign of their nation shouldn't have connotations that they conisder negative.
i understand sam's view and I just have some questions.
If the troops make the war - then how about when there is a draft and the troops have no choice... should the soldiers be supported then?
also - what if the flag wasn't on the poster? A lot of people are stating this as the main symbolism on the poster. What if instead of the flag there was something else. I don't know the word "troops" or something... would that be preferable? If so - what about the flag is more controversial?
Also, going back to Melanie's questions about people trying to finding offense... i feel that in some cases people try too hard to be politically correct although it is still important to do so. It's a tough balance between being too politically correct to the point of censuring your own thoughts and just not hurting others unnecessarily. What do you guys think? is there such thing as being too "PC"
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